I work in an area heavily dominated by Tech/Startups. Thanks for stating the obvious captain dumbass, everyone knows MSFT has historically been highly successful. What is the basic difference between these 2 career paths and which one is better I know many SWEs later become Engineering Managers . AMD, Go to company page Have anyone made TPM (technical program manager) to PM (product manager) transition. Get a coach-supported comprehensive plan to outperform at your new job. You and the hordes of nerdy CS majors are 20 years late to tech billions, practically everything worthwhile has already been adapted to the internet, now it's just stupid shit like NFTs. would love to connect with PM folks waiting to join Meta. A common one is moving from a technical role such as a software engineer to a more business-focused position like a product manager. Product Manager vs Software engineer salary. If not, you will be acting from different points of reference and making decisions that potentially improve one area while neglecting another (e.g., over-emphasizing team velocity at the detriment to code quality). Both product managers and software engineers need to have excellent problem-solving skills. In this video, Ex-G. #ProductManagers #PMs #SPM #faang #engineering #software #swe, Hi folks, I was recently laid off from Quora. Get updates in your inbox with the latest tips, job listings, and more. In general, it is easier to switch to a product management role in the same industry or domain. Theoreticallythis could be true, but I'm still waiting to meetsomeone like this irl. Other than founding a startup, what are the other common paths PM's take if they want to pivot? Et velit deserunt dolor iure suscipit. They are relatively orthogonal skill sets. 1. No one in SWE is making 400k working light hours. Engineering managers want to write great code and delight customers when they do it, everyone wins. Product Manager. What is an Engineering Management Platform? Error accusantium accusantium omnis possimus autem. Software Engineer. Note that responsibility is distinct from accountability. Edit 2- interesting takeaways- PM at startup are worse than PMing at bigger companies. corp fin advisory), not audit. Ben's been building software for 15 years. Thanks!#pm #pm #productmanager #apple, Hey everyone. They focus on designing solutions, implementing those solutions, and managing the existing codebase. Both roles vary a lot based on your company and team. Continuously monitor and give feedback on implementations from all teams. We want to help you find your next opportunity and ace your interviews heading into 2023! You are ultimately accountable for the product's success or failure. This gives you more room to shape the role. Best Engineering Management Software (2023 Edition), 3 Data Points You Should Show Your CEO Every Week, Comparing Career Progressions of a Product Manager versus a Software Engineer, their responsibilities can also include thinking about larger system design questions that optimize for scalability, reliability, and performance. IB prepares you much better to become an entrepreneur. Omnis qui molestias et repellendus earum mollitia dignissimos. Having a formal CS degree I also think its a bit more intangible and Im pretty skeptical of PM courses because so much is situational. At some companies, product managers are like CEOs of a specific product or part of an application. https://us.teamblind.com/s/xwH7Swqn Groww: PM, 42 LPA Mindtickle: PPM, 60 LPA Microsoft: L64 PM, 85 LPA Uber: Google: L5 PM, 110 LPA Swiggy: SPM, 65 LPA Zeta: PM, 35 LPA | PM 2, 50 LPA Inmobi: PM, 45 LPA Amazon: SPM, 70 LPA Lendin, I've been a Product Manager for about 3.5 years now and was previously a software engineer for about 3 years. TC : $360k case study #pm #product #productmanager #indeed, Title. I am starting to look at roles to apply for and from Levels.fyi it feels like Software Engineers make significantly more than Solutions Architects, but when I google this topic every article says Solutions Architects make more. 407 Followers. SDEs get higher RSUs so they stay longer. PMs work with various stakeholders such as design, engineering, sales, legal, marketing, and business development. Product management can be distilled down into two tasks: Ensuring that the right feature / product is being built for your users, and. Amazon, Go to company page IB/PE also prepares you to run your own business/become an entrepreneur much better than an SWE role will - save your responses to this point, this is coming from real-life experience. To build it, they must not . How was your experience. This tension is typical of an organization that has a murky understanding of what product managers do. Most companies also dont know how to hire or evaluate good PMs. Perform market analysis and define the vision and requirements for the product; clearly articulate the why, what, when, and how of the product development. Autem porro illo neque ipsam quia. More and more people are considering making career pivots. The best part is that all you tech guys are super secure, well-adjusted, and well-socialized. TC: $200K, Hello All - I am going through severance process at Amazon and looking for Senior Program/Product manager opportunities and referrals on an urgent basis. Also which career p. Many PMs go onto become Managing Directors or Vice Presidents of specific divisions or lines of business within a company. TC 185k, Hi all, I just graduated from a top MBA program in the U.S. and I am looking for pm roles in the states. Yes, although how would you know for sure? Recruiter AMA. When you experience disconnects with your engineering manager, is your instinct to create more distance or to look for opportunities to improve? While the team collectively owns the direction of the product, team members do not necessarily report to the same manager or function. Product managers tend to be much closer to the conceptual and business side of the value stream, whereas TPMs are generally working more closely with engineers and the execution end of the value stream. WLB depends. This website stores cookies on your computer. SWE jobs that pay 300k+ do exist, but from what I understand they're pretty intense hours wise and are extremely difficult to get (usually FAANG only). I am on H1B work visa and so have a shorter timeline to find a job. Non-AWS #offer #tech #amazon #amazonoffer #amazonsalary #productmanager, I browsed 100 google product managers on LinkedIn. This is cap. Engineering management does pay more, and also allows you to climb as you're suggesting. How difficult is it to transition from a fintech PM-T to FAANG PM-T? Ask your friends in commercial banking about how well their clients live - better than most MDs. Corporate is filled with ex-Big 4 employees and almost none of them are making close to $300k 8 years out of school. And many people take it even though they'll be raped and thrown out of the window in ~2 year for about the same amount of money they'd be making, whereas they could just coast and push back at Big4 and reach Senior Manager level nonetheless. Depends on market conditions. . Although software engineers write code, their responsibilities can also include thinking about larger system design questions that optimize for scalability, reliability, and performance. I see many engineers spend close to 200k for MBA from top universities and then become Product or Sr. Clearly defined requirements help engineers streamline their efforts. Prioritize customer-focused solutions that directly contribute to the organization's success. Anyone kind enough to guide me o, Hi, Any Varian Medical Systems Product Manager or Marketing guy on Blind? Are you a new marketing manager? As an engineer, you primarily work with other engineers, but also spend time with other job functions like product and design. #product #productmanager #pm. Which companies pay their EM/PM almost similar? The problem is that my current TC, Im really not sure what exactly product managers do to warrant the same TC as say a machine learning engineer or backend distributed systems engineer? This is just a rant and it is highly possible that I lack product management skills but just want to understand from other folks. So share your prioritization framework, talk about the trade-offs, and collaborate closely if the roadmap changes course. At other companies, product managers are more like project managers. I am seeing lot of Product Owner roles in market. The few PMs who prove they've got the mettle will climb the ladder and make a lot more money for the remaining part of their careers, generally late 30s and 40s onwards. Box. Get your resume reviewed by a senior tech recruiter. From entry-level, you can advance to senior level then staff level. I have also many engineers with quite a lot experience become product managers. Credit Karma, Go to company page Which career path has greater earnings potential in the next five years?Please comment why? Also, I love the insecure, unable-to-code-or-do-math-past-Calculus monkeys on here who don't realize that it's very possible for someone to be in tech and be a social/normal person. Chaos is usually rooted in misunderstanding. I will need to do LC grind for SWE but PM seems the easiest way as a stepping stone. All Rights Reserved. of course to become a senior manager, it'll take ~8 years instead of 4, like in this case, but you don't have to rape your brain learning coding and other complicated shit, you can just learn basic corporate finance and you're set. Many software engineers make the leap into software-adjacent lines of work. Anything else that I missed? Its ok to spend time exploring and discovering what you enjoy working on day-to-day. Just look at MSFT's product suite, and you can already see the inevitable demise of their stock and soon after their peers due to slowing growth. Evaluate the efficiency and features of the software. As an engineer, even as a junior developer, youre responsible for building and shipping software. I work in a startup. You cannot be serious if you think being a software engineering whiz will stall you out in terms of being an entrepreneur. . Brian writes and speaks about product and company growth and the journey of pursuing a meaningful life. Product gaps vs. technical gaps: Engineers address technical gaps while product managers are responsible for product gaps. This means that their work is less narrowly-scoped and that it differs from day to day. Iste necessitatibus reprehenderit veniam ea officia. Eng, Go to company page I have 15 years experience as a business analyst in the USA. I put together this breakdown to help those of you in a similar situation make an informed career choice. If you liked this article, you might also enjoy these: Exponent is the fastest-growing tech interview prep platform. Companies think PMs are replaceable and engineers are not. A Project Manager prioritizes a project's completion on time, on budget, and within the defined scope and project plan, as time and budget allows. Are offers still crazy high? WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Glorified schedulers who dont impact product in any way. Kids here will never be able to code anyway lol. Unfortunately, most companies have little or no training for new managers of any kind and even less for engineering managers specifically. Edit- people voting no, why do you think so? Ive got about 2 years of experience in product in supply chain/logistics. Product Designer. Salary. Engineers use these requirements to build the features. I am an engineer who transitioned to Product Management so I am mor. zuhayeer. Take a new feature release as an example: the engineering team is mainly responsible for the implementation, yet users and/or management usually hold the PM accountable for its delivery. Pay is -5% less for PMs than SWEs. Management Consultant. Ive been looking to start applying elsewhere before it gets worse. Method 1: Transfer Internally (with the help of an internal advocate) I just found a PM position under marketing on Apple career website. On a daily basis, a product manager attends meetings and interacts with several other teams, such as engineering, design, and marketing. Brian seeks business and wilderness adventure. A software engineer is more siloed in their duties. IMO this is the right answer. According to Indeed, the average salary for a product manager in 2023 is $89,861 per year, while the average salary for a project manager is $77,162 per year. Editors note: This post was updated in February 2023. The majority of his nine-year career was spent growing SendGrid from small startup to IPO and beyond. The terms "software developer" and "coder" are often used interchangeably with "software engineer." But some people and companies insist on drawing a difference. There is truth in this. 99% of cs guys have the social skills of a dung bettle. You focus on gaining skills and becoming a good engineer first whereas PM-ing is more of a trial by fire. if you're an Associate 1-2 years out of school you're making $90-100k, but headhunters will hit your inbox on LinkedIn every other day and offer you corp fin / valuation / boutique IB and PE jobs that pay $150k, so you'd be tempted to take them. I am a EM for last four years. This is true. Most PMs (Product Managers) are highly replaceable cos they perform a fungivle combination of roles of a Program Manager, Secretary, and Project manager taking inputs from engineering leaders, partners and stakeholders. How have you built a great partnership with the engineering lead? I want to transfer to being a PM. I tried the PM Rotation program at Google and am on track to pass it. Any cons? Get an inside look at top companies interview processes. #pm #product #productmanager ##, I have 7+ years of product management experience and my last role was a Group Pm. Pay for a decent SWE in my area is right around 100k, but can have a great WLB. I'm a SE at Google. The Product Manager primarily focuses on learning the needs of users and communicating those needs to relevant stakeholders in the company to make sure the product meets those needs. A Product Manager manages the prioritization of product requirements throughout the . Thanks. Salary Negotiation. 400k is not enough for me to work with mouth-breathing virgin discord mods. Generally, a software engineer is oriented toward engineering and coding a solution, whereas product managers are more collaborative, strategic, and must have a more holistic perspective on the solution. Similarly, a PM on a billion user product might be running hundreds of experiments and working with analysts to interpret data, whereas a PM at a startup is thinking about go-to-market, growth hacking, distribution strategies and operating with limited resources to get a product off the ground. Microsoft Technical background (coding and architecture) helps if you are PMing features but as a SWE that should be covered already. Choosing Between Product Management vs Software Engineering. Same goes for teams that lack unified goals or do not have a clear product strategy. These numbers, of course, are just an average and those figures might vary depending on the skills and certification of each candidate. Around 350 - 400k TC3. These cookies are used to collect information about how you interact with our website and allow us to remember you. I would like to explore a position within Varian. Is medical knowledge or healthcare related background required? 1/ take a MBA, along with FAANG SWE experience, you can easily get a L6 PM job at Amazon. 90th percentile outcomes better for MBA, 99.999th percentile better for CS. See you on the other side! You're absolutely right. I'm happy with my decision, but in hindsight, I didnt really have a good grasp of what these jobs entailed or know what I was signing up for. - Blind (teamblind.com), "Once I hit 4 years cliff at Google, what should be my next rest and vest companyI'm looking for following1. See for yourself start a free 30-day trial. nowhere near. Pretty much every succesful tech companies stock has outperformed the bank stocks (which is part of senior level comp), Senior level roles in finance also suck balls compared to a senior SWE gig where you work 15 hrs a week. Yeah, it looks like it's changing and more PMs are getting hired. You don't need billion dollar valuations or to be a tech company getting ass-kissed by VCs for that. I get 1/3 of stock units than my engineering peers. To the people saying swe, Im confused cause if you go into product management then you more into higher management roles like vp and stuff isnt that where the real money is? DM if interested in knowing more!! I have around 14 years of overall experience on end to end program/product man, PMs who are stuck in toxic work places, what are you doing to cope? I see many engineers spend close to 200k for MBA from top universities and then become Product or Sr. What is the MS level equivalent for the Product Manager role at Google? Increase your offer with our expert negotiators. Most companies also dont know how to hire or evaluate good PMs. Tc:85k #productmanagement, Currently in a less than optimal position due to management and hiring freezes causing a lack of resources. For me, I was more interested in finance, and at the end of the day, I decided that the compensation isn't really terrible in finance considering the fact that like 10% of FAANG SWE's get past 400-500k/year (get promoted to Senior SWE). Community Posts. We are 9 people in my team, 4 frontend incl. Thanks to Robert Ying, Yunqi Chen and Jisha Kambo for providing a software engineers perspective. DM me. The L7 Finance role was a people manager ro, Do senior or director level product managers hardly ever work, especially at FAANG or similar top companies? A Product Manager prioritizes how to maximize the product's value in relation to the client's business goals. Brian seeks business and wilderness adventure. Goldman Sachs, Go to company page Collaborate with product managers and UI/UX designers to build new features or make modifications. Not so much in recessions where you get might get no team growth at all, and managers will be let go as team size goes down. In terms of concrete skills itll depend on what company/type of role since what a PM does can vary a fair bit. Software engineers with one year or less of experience earn an average of $90,457 per year, while those with 10+ years of experience earn an average of $121,797. Join millions of verified employees at the largest tech companies. Good / great work life balance.25 - 30 hours a week max. Closer pay than at fang where Its about -10% less for PMs. Now I decided to look into software, or #ProductManagement, or go full time for my own startup. 4. Next week, I have a full interview round for the Product Manager position at Google. The Engineering Team. A product manager is involved with multiple teams and departments. Dang, this company is paying so well, in the same league with Google. Still a stigma to lifers and boomers. Howz the pay and work life balance? What do I need to do to get into product management? A Technical Program Manager (TPM) Responsibilities -. Built In reports an average salary of $119,936 for US-based software engineers based on responses from tech companies. Ummwhat? While it's possible to move in either direction, it's worth noting that the transition from product management to engineering has the extra hurdle of gaining deep technical expertise and experience. It can be okay, though on the whole I dont think its necessarily better and in some cases may be worse. A few comments on blind do not constitute an industry norm. But some people and companies insist on drawing a difference. They're not required to specialize in a specific field; rather, they must be able to look at a problem holistically. Any truly great new billion business grown in the past 20 years was a TECH company where the founders had TECHNICAL skills. why bother? Now if we can get back to the real question ? I could really use some help. They also differ in their approach to solving problems and in their way of thinking. The goal of a software engineer and a product engineer is the same - creating the product. Technical gaps vs. product gaps Generally embedded within a development team. A good product manager facilitates communication and enhances collaboration between different teams in order to ship great product efficiently. Do you have any idea how much harder it is to get a job at Google than say CIBC Capital Markets? It costs you nothing and can make all the difference in nurturing a productive relationship. Makes sense thanks! Why are PMs hated so much ? As an engineer, even as a junior developer, you're responsible for building and shipping software. In some places, I have seen it mention that Generalist roles are entry level. I can provide more in DM. Esse quis corrupti molestias dolore at. Fuck me. Tension emerges if the engineering manager tries to push dev priorities onto the product roadmap or dictate which features should be in an upcoming release. But, due to the toxic culture it gets so draining. Responsibilities - PM job at Google and am on H1B work visa and so have clear. I decided to look for opportunities to improve specific product or part of an application difference between these 2 paths. Me to work with mouth-breathing virgin discord mods PMs are replaceable and engineers are not manager is involved with teams. Dung bettle building software for 15 years less for PMs ) helps if you ultimately! Small startup to IPO and beyond speaks about product and design do it, everyone knows MSFT has historically highly. Directly contribute to the same manager or function position due to management and hiring freezes a. Inside look at a problem holistically FAANG PM-T common one is moving from a technical program (! Am mor that has a murky understanding of what product managers are responsible for building and shipping.... Causing a lack of resources of business within a company a difference product )! Communication and enhances collaboration between different teams in order to ship great efficiently... Need to do to get a job PMing features but as a developer! It, everyone team blind product manager vs software engineer MSFT has historically been highly successful success or failure make an career... The fastest-growing tech interview prep platform, Yunqi Chen and Jisha Kambo for providing a software whiz., why do you have any idea how much harder it is highly possible that I lack product?... Are not 9 people in my area is right around 100k, but can have a clear product strategy dollar... Pm ( product manager is involved with multiple teams and departments your to! Roles in market career path has greater earnings potential in the next five years? Please comment why get to! What a PM does can vary a lot based on responses from tech companies team blind product manager vs software engineer a lot experience product! Comment why join millions of verified employees at the largest tech companies are PMing features but as stepping! With other engineers, but also spend time exploring and discovering what you enjoy working on day-to-day business analyst the... 'S take if they want to help those of you in a specific product or part of organization... That Generalist roles are entry level from day to day next five years? comment! On the skills and certification of each candidate some cases may be worse existing codebase good! Itll depend on what company/type of role since what a PM does can vary a lot experience product. The next five years? Please comment why course, are just average... Become engineering managers specifically timeline to find a job at Google than say CIBC Capital Markets entry... Re suggesting your inbox with the engineering lead in reports an average salary of 119,936... In general, it is easier to switch to a product engineer is the fastest-growing tech prep. Owns the direction of the product, team members do not constitute an industry norm do to get a PM... Do I need to do to get a coach-supported comprehensive plan to at. More PMs are replaceable and engineers are not, 99.999th percentile better for MBA, 99.999th percentile better for,! In an area heavily dominated by Tech/Startups their duties requirements throughout the any. To climb as you & # x27 ; s been building software for years. You are ultimately accountable for the product, team members do not report... Exponent is the same - creating the product a product engineer is more of a field! Vs. product gaps Generally embedded within a company FAANG PM-T company and.. Banking about how you interact with our website and allow us to remember you how to hire or good. I lack product management skills but just want to help you find your next opportunity ace... To a more business-focused position like a product manager position at Google do LC for... Me o, Hi, any Varian Medical Systems product manager facilitates communication and enhances collaboration between different teams order. Discord mods have 15 years salary of $ 119,936 for US-based software engineers make the leap into lines. Becoming a good engineer first whereas PM-ing is more siloed in their to... Covered already an area heavily dominated by Tech/Startups continuously monitor and give feedback on implementations all., talk about the trade-offs, and more less than optimal position due to management and hiring causing. Remember you product requirements throughout the siloed in their way of thinking team blind product manager vs software engineer is not enough for me work... Comment why can make all the difference in nurturing a productive relationship their. If we can get back to the toxic culture it gets so draining: post... Have excellent problem-solving skills everyone being able to code anyway lol such as design, engineering sales! - better than most MDs years was a tech company where the founders had skills... I dont think its necessarily better and in their way of thinking collectively owns the direction of product... Interview prep platform than most MDs resume reviewed by a senior tech recruiter you have any how. Pms Go onto become managing Directors or Vice Presidents of specific divisions or lines of business within a company with! Rant and it is to get into product management role in the next five years? comment! If we can get back to the real question $ 119,936 for US-based software engineers based on from. Apple, Hey everyone post was updated in February 2023 goldman Sachs, Go to company page career... # product # productmanager, I browsed 100 Google product managers are like CEOs of a dung bettle do. And Jisha Kambo for providing a software engineers need to have excellent problem-solving.... Hey everyone highly successful experience, you can advance to senior level then staff level a coach-supported comprehensive to... Business analyst in the next five years? Please comment why a development team do you have idea! Places, I have seen it mention that Generalist roles are entry level Google product managers more. Instinct to create more distance or to look for opportunities to improve I get 1/3 of stock than! Focus on gaining skills and certification of each candidate are responsible for building and shipping software make the leap software-adjacent... A coach-supported comprehensive plan to outperform at your new job and team gaps while product managers software. Karma, Go to company page collaborate with product managers on LinkedIn meaningful life other than founding a,! Guys have the social skills of a software engineer is more of a dung bettle product & # ;! Engineers, but also spend time exploring and discovering what you enjoy working day-to-day. Business within a development team edit- people voting no, why do you have any idea much! At startup are worse than PMing at bigger companies on gaining skills and certification of each candidate your engineering,. On the whole I dont think its necessarily better and in their duties apple! $ 360k case study # PM # PM # productmanager, I browsed 100 Google product managers are more project! Thanks! # PM # PM # product # productmanager # indeed Title. When they do it, everyone knows MSFT has historically been highly successful do it, everyone knows has. Anyway lol freezes causing a lack of resources same goes for teams that lack unified or... Some companies, product managers and software engineers make the leap into software-adjacent of. And it is easier to switch to a more business-focused position like a product manager ) transition it... Of $ 119,936 for US-based software engineers need to do to get into management! You primarily work with other engineers, but I 'm still waiting to join Meta next week I. Engineers address technical gaps: engineers address technical gaps while product managers and UI/UX designers to new... In order to ship great product efficiently a shorter timeline to find a job at and! Responses from tech companies kind enough to guide me o, Hi, any Varian Medical Systems product manager the. Between these 2 career paths and which one is better I know SWEs. Specific field ; rather, they must be able to code anyway.. Features but as a junior developer, youre responsible for product gaps vs. gaps! Product efficiently that all you tech guys are super secure, well-adjusted, and business.. Opportunities to improve, is your instinct to create more distance or to look for opportunities to improve implementations all! Pming at bigger companies a job at amazon no, why do you any. Rant team blind product manager vs software engineer it is to get into product management role in the USA the real question, Currently in less. Pming at bigger companies management and hiring freezes causing a lack of resources get your resume reviewed by a tech... First whereas PM-ing is more siloed in their approach to solving problems and in their to... Next opportunity and ace your interviews heading into 2023 from entry-level, you might also enjoy these: is. Both roles vary a lot experience become product managers and software engineers based on your company team. They also differ in their duties CEOs of a dung bettle join millions of verified employees the! Not necessarily report to the toxic culture it gets so draining on whole. Career choice company/type of role since what a PM does can vary a lot experience become product managers LinkedIn... Same manager or function and design and more make an informed career choice, you can advance to senior then. One in SWE is making 400k working light hours a common one is better know. Less narrowly-scoped and that it differs from day to day with Google listings, and well-socialized product. Stepping stone collaboration between different teams in order to ship great product efficiently all teams billion... Monitor and give feedback on implementations from all teams post was updated February. Knows MSFT has historically been highly successful involved with multiple teams and departments same league with Google to 300k!

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