Amen. Id like to share a few things as we navigate this loss together. Theyre not holding anybody accountable then. That nonprofit corporation and its bank accounts, thats not what the biblical church is. However, there should be a bubble level of character in Christ that we return to. Can you imagine what that does for book sales to be on stage at the Global Leadership Summit among people all over the world and touted as an expert in something? I know that the original elders of Harvest thought they could keep James accountable despite the knowledge that he had glaring character flaws from the beginning. It is what manifests. And I think Christian leaders need to start stepping up. I would probably have been among those who defended Bill saying, He couldnt have done these things; Hes too strong of a Christian leader. I see this culture as similar to the Corinthian church with the man who was involved with his fathers wife. And the Nancy Ortberg situation, a hug that lasted too long. Why did so many look the other way for so long? Dear anonymous. I did live it. So grateful for those who did and Scot McKnight who came out with a just a powerful, I remember when his blog hit and he said, Every elder has to resign. And within what, wasnt it a week, all of them resigned. I think its incredibly dangerous. Im Julie Roys. At one point, the elder board at Willow became what people call a policy governance board. Jill and Stuart came to the States from England. Its M-I-L-G-R-A-M the Milgram experiment, but basically American researchers were trying to figure out after World War II, why so many in German society were willing to go along with the Nazis or go along with their leadership, do incalculably horrible things to people. This is a calling. Well, lets talk a little bit about the leadership that protected him because I think that is the question that I keep hearing over and over from folks is, How do we prevent this from happening? What I need most is what I dont have. It is also the church in which Pete Briscoe, my former wonderful pastor, grew up in. And Im like, Ive never seen a spiritual leader ever, ever have that sort of self disclosure in front of the church before he preaches. I think there was a culture of pride at Willow that basically said, We are the elite of the Christian world. It took a variety of forms. To view their entire showroom online. And I still havent been able to get her to visit with me. Pete has offered to I was a member of WCCC for many years. Yeah, thats right. But it just has not really looked like true repentance in so many ways. Would you consider making a tax-deductible donation to help our journalists continue to report the truth and restore the church? But now my faith in the whole institution is shattered. Character always has to come first in hiring, then competence, and then chemistry. Hes also a strong believer and advocate for abuse victims. If they have the character to lead the accountability will help keep them you know, keep them honest, so to speak, you know, its kind of like when you put a bike lock on your bike that. Your tax-deductible gift helps our journalists report the truth and hold Christian leaders and organizations accountable. I mean, that is just huge. Like if you go back and you actually read his books line-on-line, there are some things in there in those books where you go, For a pastor, that should be unacceptable. But he was attenuating his church culture and culture at large to him in his behavior. And this is whats so difficult. In this Milgram experiment, they found that people are willing to do things under collar of authority and that they would not probably otherwise do. Amen. Its really pride. Ive even friended a few. And I can only imagine what the economic forces are behind the scenes for that, but it really disappoints me, that that hasnt happened. Stuart Briscoe died on August 3 "of natural causes unexpectedly" according to a tweet from his son, Pete Briscoe. Yeah. But theres something wrong in the whole business of Church. And something else that you mentioned about the board, which I found fascinating was that the Willow Creek board had an awful lot of lawyers on it. And he committed sex acts with her. If anything has a whiff of impropriety, we would jump on it immediately. In another area, it might be used to groom someone and use vulnerability as a mechanism to draw people into something that is corrupt. Right? I followed the Harvest situation, which I think is its own it, you know, separate facts. Posted by Jonathan Deatherage on Apr 02, 2019. Its a calling of God. And to do that, we must avoid falling into the trap of our Christian beliefs being pitted against culture in the public sphere of debate. etc. You can read about them at their website Teaching the Truth. Who hasnt given a friend a friendly kiss once in awhile? I think the load needs to be shared. Whats our theology? Yeah, totally agree. The immense audio, video, and written teaching resources on our website help people who are seeking answers about God to know Christ and experience Life in all its fullness. It is also the church in which Pete Briscoe, my former wonderful pastor, grew up in. And I do think theres a spiritual stronghold, I hope and pray that it will be broken in our area. So I was quite taken aback when this scandal came out. He has been married to Jill for more than 59 years and has three children and 13 grandchildren. The news of Petes resignation landed heavy on my heart. For that we are forever grateful. And heres what we have to do as people leading churches, okay, you have to understand what the signs of grooming are so one of the things that I did that really helps me, my good friend, Boz Tchividjian, put out a book through his organization G.R.A.C.E. I mean, it was a great time. These little bitty people, from Willows perspective, who helped win the PR back, its a miracle. In fact, back in the late 80s, early 90s, we went to Willow Creek and we had a wonderful experience. I am with you in this sad place of justified disappointment in the church. Is that right? Pete Briscoe was Senior Pastor of Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Carrollton, TX for nearly 30 years. Yes, probably a number of your listeners are aware of the situation where the Ortbergs and Mellados had tried to report to the board an alleged long term affair that Bill Hybels was engaged in and the church hired an outside investigator to investigate the situation. And not elevated above it. And then everyone could say, Oh, how sad that that one person did that one thing. To us, he was Stu, Dad and Poppa and we already miss him achingly." Briscoe says that he wants Bent Tree to be a place where people can agree to disagree over this issue. I think, as believers, we should be standing for truth, we should not look the other way. It manifested even at the IT level at the church. Pete grew up in a home with intelligent and committed parents: both The church said in essence, Tsk, tsk. And theres a lot of people asking, Is that just too great a burden to ever put on one person? How do you respond to that? Please contact us or click here to learn more about how to enable JavaScript on your browser. Pete grew up in a home with intelligent and committed parents: both Im doing well but probably not as well as you because youre on vacation in Florida. And the thing about predators, Bill Hybels included, okay, is they start to do more things in public to condition you to behavior that is inappropriate, and they test their boundaries, to see what they can get away with. At the same time. Welcome to the Roys report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. So since youve seen a lot of this kind of up close and personal through talking to witnesses and elders and staff people, how bad was the abuse at Willow Creek? I mean, I cant tell you how many stories I heard just like the one that you told the people who said, Well, I was at a conference with Bill Hybels, and he was awful to me. It should be something that he learned from, right? Then, I did what all good Christian college students did at that time I acquired a boot-leg copy of the drama and listened to it several times on my own. Julie, thats whats so interesting about this story to me as I got deeper into it, I started to understand That, you know, when you go to the movies, and you see a story, you expect, okay, that guys the villain. This is what manifests. May you and your family be richly bleSSed!!! And I remember you saying. The church is nondenominational and has woman pastors and elders. Vanilla orchids are actually pollinated by hand in most places. Scott Dyer was the worship pastor at Bent Tree Bible fellowship. The vanilla bean is incredibly hard to harvest. Well, and I hope there are Christian leaders listening to this who take note because is the time of just being silent and thinking that because youre silent, nothing will come back on you, thats past. These are people that may be in the cubicle next to you at work, who have an acuity for blending in to normal life. He represented two women involved in the sex abuse scandal involving Bill Hybels. I think that was a move of God, a move of the Holy Spirit. Fellowship, Church family, Community. Stuart and Jill Briscoe have always had a passion for teaching God's Word and speaking Truth into people's hearts and moving them toward God. Julie, it is great to be with you again. We have an open listing for a lead teaching pastor in a what I believe is a healthy church environment. Volunteers monitored the process in real time, turning over cassettes at the appropriate time to record on the second side. Or what is the church think about Calvinism? something along those lines. He, Becky and their kids have been part of the fabric of BT for so long, it is Explain that. Jill So as we part ways, let us make the departure sweet. And another womans situation, theyre in an elder board meeting, and Bill Hybels, you know, has his hand on a womans leg, and no one else can see. And I thought, I think I knew what he was doing when he named it that, but heres why I think its so ironic. Amen. So I was really struggling with my faith. Thats what he was. They show up, they sell books. Well, one thing I did want to cover, and our time is getting to an end, but I know that you have dealt with having a sexual predator within your church. Keep in touch with Julie and get updates in your inbox! The ministry began in 1971 while Stuart served as senior pastor of Elmbrook Church in Brookfield, Wisconsin, which grew into the largest evangelical church in the state. The thief knows how to how to get through that lock, right? Heres to better days and better church health. About Stuart and Jill Briscoe The Journal Sentinel reported: Elmbrook resignations are the latest to rock evangelical Christian churches. When the when the mans lying on the side of the road, naked and bleeding, theyre the priests who cross the street. But I have to say that in the middle of dealing with a lot of tall weeds and bugs, God has also given me some flowers and fruit trees to enjoy. Im so glad that theyre godly men like you serving. WebLearn More About Pete Today - Pete Briscoe God loves you to distraction, There is nothing you can do to make Him love them more or less, And, that Life with this Lover God is rich beyond description, regardless of your performance. James MacDonald was friends with Ed Stetzer. But they spoke. But if you have a pastor with a glaring character flaw youre fooling yourself if you think youre gonna keep that character flaw in line with a pastor who doesnt put Jesus Christ first in his life, am I right? Pete reminds us that our goal is not to win arguments, but to win people. There are therapy notes to support her story. And I think that Bill Hybels created an advocacy structure around him by having that many lawyers on the board. I appreciate your feedback. Hes one of the good guys. Theyve got a little bit of the guide part. That goes to the guarding role that Attorney Mitch shared. https://www.billionbibles.com/voice-of-the-martyrs.html. And I remember you saying once that you had gotten a manual, I think it was from the ECFA, and boy, we could talk about them. https://world.wng.org/sites/default/files/issues/pdf/world_sep012018.pdf, Also, Id encourage you to read the website below. Its something like Child Protection Policies. I dont think that theres anything at a mega church that innoculates it from being good. And so when you know from the pulpit, that might be a strength. Yeah, yeah, I think I think thats a good word to Julie. :), I would strongly urge you to research Voice of the Martyrs. Guest Bios Show Transcript Many times, those who have experienced spiritual abuse are retraumatized when they try to speak about whats happened. But it was after a period of I dont know the details, and I dont know how much youre at liberty to say them, but its my understanding he went away for a period of time to kind of reflect and assess how he was doing and how he was handling things. We were fighting asymmetric warfare, right? That way, youll never miss an episode. Great question. I dont know. So, thanks for taking the time and you know, anybody whos willing to take a few minutes out of their vacation for a podcast, I just really appreciate it. And so, you know, as a lawyer on the board, youre not absolved from the obligation of complying with the mandates of Scripture. I was the senior pastor of Bent Tree Bible Fellowship for nearly 30 years. And youre in the process right now of looking for a senior pastor. Yet Mitch isnt just the lawyer whos seen megachurches as an outsider bringing accountability. So, you know, Julie, its really its death by 1000 cuts. Jill Those are the good guys. And the people in this story are complex characters. I think it took courage and boldness on his part to be able to do that. So a young person in our high school ministry. Great! Its all a Business and Power tool and stage for Virtue Signaling. Pete reminds us that our goal is not to win arguments, but to win people. And that set the course for some of these more severe things to continue happening, and then to even get more and more severe. It started as a simple tape duplication ministry in a home basement, using a reel-to-reel tape recorder linked to a dozen smaller recorders to duplicate the Briscoes' teaching. WebBriscoe says that he wants Bent Tree to be a place where people can agree to disagree over this issue. And so I thought it was so funny that James MacDonald had his house in the name of an entity called Vanilla Bean LLC. So Mitch, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today. He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. That our goal is not to win people his son, pete Briscoe policy governance board he been! Natural causes unexpectedly '' according to a tweet from his son, Briscoe! With me thank you so much for taking the time to record on the board Nancy Ortberg situation, move... Him by having that many lawyers on the board they try to speak about what happened to pete briscoe happened pete! 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